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Brexit

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A Tribe Called Quest Premium_small (ll) 14 March 2019, 19:27
CF Galacticos wrote:
A second referendum needs to be held. I'm guessing that a majority of those who voted for brexit 2 years ago didn't have a no-deal brexit in mind which is the only brexit we're realistically going to get at this point, it would be disastrous for the foreseeable future. The EU isn't perfect, it's no where near ideal, but it's far better than the alternative we're facing.
+1

A Tribe Called Quest wrote:
Lateside united wrote:
Aslong as we all pull together will be fine get the borders shut more work for English we're over run with foreigners taking are jobs
Ah yeah those pesky foreigners keeping us alive with their work in the NHS. The reality is that we need foreign labour, it’s the backwards, racist, lazy brits that are a burden to Britain not immigrants.


Firmly in the Remain camp - The Brexiteers largely comprise of people who didn't understand what they were voting for and believed Boris, Farage and co, or the uber wealthy who didn't like the EU tightening the noose on tax evasion. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but that's the majority in my book.

There is no scenario in which Brexit will end well. It just won't. There is no deal we can get from the EU that will be better than what we have - the EU have literally zero motivation to do a good deal as it would undermine their entire existence. The rest of the world aren't queueing up to sign free trade deals with us for a reason - any developed nation will exploit the weak position the UK is in - India and Australia have already tried their luck with getting relaxations on immigration as part of any future deal.

Lateside demonstrates the case in point - He says less foreigners to come and take our jobs - reality says Brexit will increase immigration, it just won't be from the EU. If immigration was actually a factor in any of this (rather than a sham issue, pushed to exploit xenophobia) then the UK government would have done something about migration from outside the EU which is higher than EU immigration and has been every year for the last 20 years. In terms of being a burden 76% of EU nationals in the UK are working, compared to 64% of non-EU nationals.

In terms of the education/class debate - the biggest problem with this issue is the decimation of the youth service. I took a group of vulnerable kids who had been in the care system to Poland on EU money about 15 years ago. These are some of the poorest in our society who had it pretty tough, and they had an amazing experience, considering most had never been out of the country etc. With no youth service, there's no opportunities for the working class and elements of our society who have it hardest to see the benefits of the EU. I firmly believe the educated voted for Remain because they see the opportunities the EU provides, rather than any selfish notions of being better off. I could of course be wrong, but it seems to me that those who voted based on a desire to make things better for themselves were the super rich, or the poorest people.

In terms of where we will eventually end up - I think Honda and Toyota are bellweathers and there should be grave concern about the future of our manufacturing industry. Passporting is critical as financial services make up such a significant percentage of our economy... but ultimately, the little Englander mentality is just not based on anything substantive and the UK will be far, far worse off than it currently is.

As for me, I intend to emigrate, hopefully before the ramifications really hit home. I suspect that large swathes of the educated population will do similar - two of my mates from uni are already in Australia - there will be a huge "brain drain" from the UK economy and nobody seems to be talking about it....yet

Summy rangers FC Premium_small (Name) 16 March 2019, 20:49
/Removed

Rabinowitz FC Premium_small (Samuel Rabinowitz) 16 March 2019, 22:20
Best deal for the country was voted down and that was no Deal. The first people at out door will be......hello Mr barnier Oh and there's Mr tusk. And then hopefully may will hold them to ransom like those idiots are doing to us

Rabinowitz FC wrote:
Best deal for the country was voted down and that was no Deal. The first people at out door will be......hello Mr barnier Oh and there's Mr tusk. And then hopefully may will hold them to ransom like those idiots are doing to us
No deal would be an utter disaster. What do you feel would be good about it? And how can we hold the EU to ransom when they have a stacked deck and we have a busted flush? Theres a reason the negotiations have gone how they did - we're negotiating from a position of weakness... we're just not as important as farage and co keep telling you we are.

RJS United (Ryan Smith) 17 March 2019, 13:49
My dad was a senior negotiator for a then national company. He went on many courses and met many experts on negotiation and he always was taught to keep the ace up his sleeve, though it would be rarely if ever used. The key to any successful negotiation strategy with the EU was to keep threatening them with no deal and appear to mean it .... not withdraw the only potent threat we hold.

Rabinowitz FC Premium_small (Samuel Rabinowitz) 17 March 2019, 17:34
[we have the power if used correctly. We are the biggest importer of German cars (mega buisness) biggest importer of French and Italian wines and we export over half our food to the eu so yes we are in a very powerful position. Mrs mays deal is the best possible as the eu don't want to give the uk anything and just want to take take take. All from unelected morons. Corbyn would have crumbled under such pressure. The fact we do most of our trade outside of the eu to is another plus point. The eu won't reform and they fully know they need the uk more than the uk need the eu.

quote=No Pukki No Party]
[quote=Rabinowitz FC]
Best deal for the country was voted down and that was no Deal. The first people at out door will be......hello Mr barnier Oh and there's Mr tusk. And then hopefully may will hold them to ransom like those idiots are doing to us
[/quote]

No deal would be an utter disaster. What do you feel would be good about it? And how can we hold the EU to ransom when they have a stacked deck and we have a busted flush? Theres a reason the negotiations have gone how they did - we're negotiating from a position of weakness... we're just not as important as farage and co keep telling you we are.
[/quote]

Rabinowitz FC wrote:
we have the power if used correctly. We are the biggest importer of German cars (mega buisness) biggest importer of French and Italian wines and we export over half our food to the eu so yes we are in a very powerful position. Mrs mays deal is the best possible as the eu don't want to give the uk anything and just want to take take take. All from unelected morons. Corbyn would have crumbled under such pressure. The fact we do most of our trade outside of the eu to is another plus point. The eu won't reform and they fully know they need the uk more than the uk need the eu.
We have no power and if you think we do then you're delusional I'm afraid.

Does the EU want a deal? Sure. Do they NEED a deal? Absolutely not. Is keeping the Union secure more important and more valuable to them? Absolutely.

Does Britain want a deal? Yes. Do we NEED a deal? Well, that kind of depends if you think tanking our entire economy is a good idea. Most would say it is not a good idea so yes, we absolutely need a deal. India and Australia have already tried to pull our pants down because they know that we're desperate to do some deals. Why is it that Britain always ends up on the short end of negotiations if we're so powerful and important? Ah, that'll be because actually, we're not that important and nobody really gives a toss if we go under. Negotiation from a position of desparation is only ever going to end one way.

The problem you have, is you're equating our individual imports and exports against EU countries singularly, when in fact, you need to compare them against the EU as a single entity. Our market value ain't that high. In fact, it's far lower than ever now that they've got the deals with Japan and Canada through.

This logic of the nasty EU bullying us is symptomatic of the delusion I'm afraid. They're negotiating with us from a position of strength vs our position of desparation. It's literally EXACTLY as the remainers said it would be. They can't give us a good deal because it would undermine the entire idea of the EU, and furthermore, why on Earth would they when they don't need us?

They literally don't need us, and we desparately need them. If you can't see that, then you need to do some more research, or maybe get a better understanding of geo-politics. If they needed us then do you not think that the UK would have emerged with a rather better deal than the sham May is trying to bribe through the commons? Common sense should tell you that if they genuinely needed us more than we needed them, then we would have got some kind of decent deal done that suited all sides.

Lateside united Premium_small (The battle is won) 17 March 2019, 23:52
No Pukki No Party wrote:
Rabinowitz FC wrote:
we have the power if used correctly. We are the biggest importer of German cars (mega buisness) biggest importer of French and Italian wines and we export over half our food to the eu so yes we are in a very powerful position. Mrs mays deal is the best possible as the eu don't want to give the uk anything and just want to take take take. All from unelected morons. Corbyn would have crumbled under such pressure. The fact we do most of our trade outside of the eu to is another plus point. The eu won't reform and they fully know they need the uk more than the uk need the eu.
We have no power and if you think we do then you're delusional I'm afraid.

Does the EU want a deal? Sure. Do they NEED a deal? Absolutely not. Is keeping the Union secure more important and more valuable to them? Absolutely.

Does Britain want a deal? Yes. Do we NEED a deal? Well, that kind of depends if you think tanking our entire economy is a good idea. Most would say it is not a good idea so yes, we absolutely need a deal. India and Australia have already tried to pull our pants down because they know that we're desperate to do some deals. Why is it that Britain always ends up on the short end of negotiations if we're so powerful and important? Ah, that'll be because actually, we're not that important and nobody really gives a toss if we go under. Negotiation from a position of desparation is only ever going to end one way.

The problem you have, is you're equating our individual imports and exports against EU countries singularly, when in fact, you need to compare them against the EU as a single entity. Our market value ain't that high. In fact, it's far lower than ever now that they've got the deals with Japan and Canada through.

This logic of the nasty EU bullying us is symptomatic of the delusion I'm afraid. They're negotiating with us from a position of strength vs our position of desparation. It's literally EXACTLY as the remainers said it would be. They can't give us a good deal because it would undermine the entire idea of the EU, and furthermore, why on Earth would they when they don't need us?

They literally don't need us, and we desparately need them. If you can't see that, then you need to do some more research, or maybe get a better understanding of geo-politics. If they needed us then do you not think that the UK would have emerged with a rather better deal than the sham May is trying to bribe through the commons? Common sense should tell you that if they genuinely needed us more than we needed them, then we would have got some kind of decent deal done that suited all sides.
can I ask why you say we? Your Polish not English
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