[Announcement] Unbalanced Stats and Training

Bårdur FC wrote:

Do we really want to know all aspects of the game?

Personally I am aware that if you only train one discipline (training group) these individual stats will increase – and will keep increasing. As time passes, the training will get worse and worse. Which tells me by reasoning, that there is a penalty for training stats which already are higher than the average. It also tells me that the bigger the difference – the more effect of the penalty. And personally – that’s all I need to know! If I find myself in a situation, where every aspect of Virtual Manager can be put into datasheets and boxes – I will loose the mystery which for me is Virtual Manager. So again – personally – I’m really not interested in finding the answer. But if you guys insist I will forward the request to FC Sunnyvale, but I can’t promise that he will release such a spoiler.

I'm all for mystery, but the lack of information about "how things work" released by the staff themselves, combined with the randomness involved in all the systems, makes it really hard to learn enough about the game to make informed decisions.

In this particular case, knowing something about how unbalanced stats affects training average will let people decide whether or not unbalanced stats are worth it or - if what you're saying about penalty increasing is accurate - how much unbalance is too much.

Another area where there is too much mystery is the match engine. It is so random with so many factors possibly affecting outcome that the best advice we have after however many months of it being around is... use shoot on sight and play at home! That's not enough!

People can't learn and become better at the game when the only thing possible to learn are the most very general of guidelines (and even many of these are suspect!) that can be inferred from watching games and trying to see patterns in training.

I'm not looking for all the systems to be laid bare, but releasing a certain amount of factual information about how the game works would really benefit everybody.

Bayern Munich wrote:

Bårdur FC wrote:

Do we really want to know all aspects of the game?

Personally I am aware that if you only train one discipline (training group) these individual stats will increase – and will keep increasing. As time passes, the training will get worse and worse. Which tells me by reasoning, that there is a penalty for training stats which already are higher than the average. It also tells me that the bigger the difference – the more effect of the penalty. And personally – that’s all I need to know! If I find myself in a situation, where every aspect of Virtual Manager can be put into datasheets and boxes – I will loose the mystery which for me is Virtual Manager. So again – personally – I’m really not interested in finding the answer. But if you guys insist I will forward the request to FC Sunnyvale, but I can’t promise that he will release such a spoiler.

I'm all for mystery, but the lack of information about "how things work" released by the staff themselves, combined with the randomness involved in all the systems, makes it really hard to learn enough about the game to make informed decisions.

In this particular case, knowing something about how unbalanced stats affects training average will let people decide whether or not unbalanced stats are worth it or - if what you're saying about penalty increasing is accurate - how much unbalance is too much.

Another area where there is too much mystery is the match engine. It is so random with so many factors possibly affecting outcome that the best advice we have after however many months of it being around is... use shoot on sight and play at home! That's not enough!

People can't learn and become better at the game when the only thing possible to learn are the most very general of guidelines (and even many of these are suspect!) that can be inferred from watching games and trying to see patterns in training.

I'm not looking for all the systems to be laid bare, but releasing a certain amount of factual information about how the game works would really benefit everybody.

Even though i heard about the calculations involved a bit ago i pay little attention to it when playing the game. Since the new training has been implemented i have been hammering my players in certain stats and this week looking at my training it appears to be getting a bit worse. Next season or so i will probably hit some weaker stats. One of the reasons i haven't given out the amount of training loss i was told is because really i wasn't that bothered to know when i already believed there was a penalty anyway. People should learn by observing players and experimenting otherwise its not really much fun to play. Just wouldn't want to spoil it for those of us who like to work things out ourselves.

Dukinfield FC wrote:

Bayern Munich wrote:

Bårdur FC wrote:

Do we really want to know all aspects of the game?

Personally I am aware that if you only train one discipline (training group) these individual stats will increase – and will keep increasing. As time passes, the training will get worse and worse. Which tells me by reasoning, that there is a penalty for training stats which already are higher than the average. It also tells me that the bigger the difference – the more effect of the penalty. And personally – that’s all I need to know! If I find myself in a situation, where every aspect of Virtual Manager can be put into datasheets and boxes – I will loose the mystery which for me is Virtual Manager. So again – personally – I’m really not interested in finding the answer. But if you guys insist I will forward the request to FC Sunnyvale, but I can’t promise that he will release such a spoiler.

I'm all for mystery, but the lack of information about "how things work" released by the staff themselves, combined with the randomness involved in all the systems, makes it really hard to learn enough about the game to make informed decisions.

In this particular case, knowing something about how unbalanced stats affects training average will let people decide whether or not unbalanced stats are worth it or - if what you're saying about penalty increasing is accurate - how much unbalance is too much.

Another area where there is too much mystery is the match engine. It is so random with so many factors possibly affecting outcome that the best advice we have after however many months of it being around is... use shoot on sight and play at home! That's not enough!

People can't learn and become better at the game when the only thing possible to learn are the most very general of guidelines (and even many of these are suspect!) that can be inferred from watching games and trying to see patterns in training.

I'm not looking for all the systems to be laid bare, but releasing a certain amount of factual information about how the game works would really benefit everybody.

Even though i heard about the calculations involved a bit ago i pay little attention to it when playing the game. Since the new training has been implemented i have been hammering my players in certain stats and this week looking at my training it appears to be getting a bit worse. Next season or so i will probably hit some weaker stats. One of the reasons i haven't given out the amount of training loss i was told is because really i wasn't that bothered to know when i already believed there was a penalty anyway. People should learn by observing players and experimenting otherwise its not really much fun to play. Just wouldn't want to spoil it for those of us who like to work things out ourselves.

then theres no need to have a forum;;to pass on our knowledge to people who post looking for help as you are aware my friend the game is changing big style and we all need to learn to adjust(which is a good thing) but if you think that by reading he forum spoils it for you and you want to work things out for youself then don't read the forum because right now every1 is seeking KNOWLEDGE

Frankies acre bhoys wrote:

Dukinfield FC wrote:

Bayern Munich wrote:

Bårdur FC wrote:

Do we really want to know all aspects of the game?

Personally I am aware that if you only train one discipline (training group) these individual stats will increase – and will keep increasing. As time passes, the training will get worse and worse. Which tells me by reasoning, that there is a penalty for training stats which already are higher than the average. It also tells me that the bigger the difference – the more effect of the penalty. And personally – that’s all I need to know! If I find myself in a situation, where every aspect of Virtual Manager can be put into datasheets and boxes – I will loose the mystery which for me is Virtual Manager. So again – personally – I’m really not interested in finding the answer. But if you guys insist I will forward the request to FC Sunnyvale, but I can’t promise that he will release such a spoiler.

I'm all for mystery, but the lack of information about "how things work" released by the staff themselves, combined with the randomness involved in all the systems, makes it really hard to learn enough about the game to make informed decisions.

In this particular case, knowing something about how unbalanced stats affects training average will let people decide whether or not unbalanced stats are worth it or - if what you're saying about penalty increasing is accurate - how much unbalance is too much.

Another area where there is too much mystery is the match engine. It is so random with so many factors possibly affecting outcome that the best advice we have after however many months of it being around is... use shoot on sight and play at home! That's not enough!

People can't learn and become better at the game when the only thing possible to learn are the most very general of guidelines (and even many of these are suspect!) that can be inferred from watching games and trying to see patterns in training.

I'm not looking for all the systems to be laid bare, but releasing a certain amount of factual information about how the game works would really benefit everybody.

Even though i heard about the calculations involved a bit ago i pay little attention to it when playing the game. Since the new training has been implemented i have been hammering my players in certain stats and this week looking at my training it appears to be getting a bit worse. Next season or so i will probably hit some weaker stats. One of the reasons i haven't given out the amount of training loss i was told is because really i wasn't that bothered to know when i already believed there was a penalty anyway. People should learn by observing players and experimenting otherwise its not really much fun to play. Just wouldn't want to spoil it for those of us who like to work things out ourselves.

then theres no need to have a forum;;to pass on our knowledge to people who post looking for help as you are aware my friend the game is changing big style and we all need to learn to adjust(which is a good thing) but if you think that by reading he forum spoils it for you and you want to work things out for youself then don't read the forum because right now every1 is seeking KNOWLEDGE

Asking questions in the forums is a bit different to knowing how every intricate detail of how something ticks. I have asked questions and been very grateful for the answers. If everyone knows everything already then what advantage can you gain by developing your own skills.

EDIT: beside until it was mentioned on the forums how many people were looking for the answers given.

Dukinfield FC wrote:

Even though i heard about the calculations involved a bit ago i pay little attention to it when playing the game. Since the new training has been implemented i have been hammering my players in certain stats and this week looking at my training it appears to be getting a bit worse. Next season or so i will probably hit some weaker stats. One of the reasons i haven't given out the amount of training loss i was told is because really i wasn't that bothered to know when i already believed there was a penalty anyway. People should learn by observing players and experimenting otherwise its not really much fun to play. Just wouldn't want to spoil it for those of us who like to work things out ourselves.

Spill the beans please

Rhythm FC wrote:

Dukinfield FC wrote:

Even though i heard about the calculations involved a bit ago i pay little attention to it when playing the game. Since the new training has been implemented i have been hammering my players in certain stats and this week looking at my training it appears to be getting a bit worse. Next season or so i will probably hit some weaker stats. One of the reasons i haven't given out the amount of training loss i was told is because really i wasn't that bothered to know when i already believed there was a penalty anyway. People should learn by observing players and experimenting otherwise its not really much fun to play. Just wouldn't want to spoil it for those of us who like to work things out ourselves.

Spill the beans please

I am not so 100% certain without having to read back through private conversations. I just know what the performance hit is off the top of my head but exactly how its distributed not certain. From what has been posted it sounds like it has changed anyway from old to new stats.

Edit: I had already observed interesting changes in training where players had been unbalanced to the extremes. I have also said many times on these forums that having a well balanced player improves training even before i had conversations about what the real figures were.

Dukinfield FC wrote:

Rhythm FC wrote:

Dukinfield FC wrote:

Even though i heard about the calculations involved a bit ago i pay little attention to it when playing the game. Since the new training has been implemented i have been hammering my players in certain stats and this week looking at my training it appears to be getting a bit worse. Next season or so i will probably hit some weaker stats. One of the reasons i haven't given out the amount of training loss i was told is because really i wasn't that bothered to know when i already believed there was a penalty anyway. People should learn by observing players and experimenting otherwise its not really much fun to play. Just wouldn't want to spoil it for those of us who like to work things out ourselves.

Spill the beans please

I am not so 100% certain without having to read back through private conversations. I just know what the performance hit is off the top of my head but exactly how its distributed not certain. From what has been posted it sounds like it has changed anyway from old to new stats.

Edit: I had already observed interesting changes in training where players had been unbalanced to the extremes. I have also said many times on these forums that having a well balanced player improves training even before i had conversations about what the real figures were.

To be fair, we all knew that *relatively* balanced stats gave better training results and players with extremely unbalanced stats would experience noticeable degradation of their training scores, but I doubt many people knew about the 11.5% threshold or knew the exact penalty if it was exceeded. I can work it out but I it's a big waste of time and not worth it in the end. If people have been given the exact hit then I don't know why they've kept it secret all this time tbh.

Can you give us the performance hit please? I'll be able to make sense of it in relation to the new stats

Dukinfield FC wrote:

People should learn by observing players and experimenting otherwise its not really much fun to play. Just wouldn't want to spoil it for those of us who like to work things out ourselves.

With the way the system works there are things you can't really work out. There is too much random data ("slumps", random high trains, etc) thrown in for me to have much faith in trying to determine how training degrades over time with unbalanced stats.

We're not exactly asking for the keys to the game here... just an idea of what the penalty on training an unbalanced player is. This is the kind of information that shouldn't be kept hidden... especially since even once we know the penalty there is still a decision to be made between optimizing abilities or optimizing training.

Similarly, I'm sorry... but there isn't much about the match engine you (or at least I) can learn from watching. For all but the most obvious things (like home-field advantage), it's too random. Patterns change from game to game, and we have no idea what orders the other team is using so there is no way to judge whether your orders vs theirs mattered. It's a black box, for the most part... and that's silly, because it doesn't give people enough information to work things out.

Bayern Munich wrote:

I know it's just a coincidence, but the average of my all Team Building training (my players are low on Perseverance and Leadership) was 194%, which is my highest ever team average since training was changed and my highest in the last 10 days by 35%.

Again targeted low stats, but used different exercises tonight. 187%. No complaints thus far.

EDIT: Well, one complaint: rating gains stink.

Bayern Munich wrote:

Bayern Munich wrote:

I know it's just a coincidence, but the average of my all Team Building training (my players are low on Perseverance and Leadership) was 194%, which is my highest ever team average since training was changed and my highest in the last 10 days by 35%.

Again targeted low stats, but used different exercises tonight. 187%. No complaints thus far.

EDIT: Well, one complaint: rating gains stink.

Weak stats...had a stinker...averaged 180% and had some players hit lowest train since signing them...