Unbalanced economy and flawed training system

Hello,

This is topic is just to complain about the two things described in the title: the game economy and the training system.

As a beginner, you start with shitty players, no stadium and no facilities.
Depending on your activity on the transfer market you can promote once after a month (or sooner but you relegate and the next week you may promote, which will finally make it a month).
But then you get stuck.
In the first month you get to improve the stadium to 1k places (or more if you pay), and maybe get to the "Training ground"/"Large Training ground".
But that doesn't help, and unless you pay you have to be 24/7 on the TL to maybe get to 3rd in 3 or more months, where you would struggle, as the difference in value is very big.
But competing with older players seems pointless.
They have training facilities which can turn a huge profit, just by taking not so talented 15yo and giving them 5 or so training so their value explodes to 200k+ which can be sold at 100k on auction easily.
By paying to play also gives an unfair advantage, more so the higher you are in the leagues.
Stadium really kicks in after a certain level, as well as access to maxing the training facilities and allowing the use of trainers.
The wages don't get discounted for people who don't have the paying memberships, so sustaining wages of 20k/day with 9K income/match and sponsorship+division prizes is not possible.

Income:
9k x 15 matches at home = 135k
Broadcasting rights for season 1924 = 31,3 k / Broadcasting rights for season 1923 : 29,8 k
Prize money for 7th place in Division 4: 39,5 k / Prize money for 11th place in Division 4 : 26,6 k

Spending:
7 days x 20 k = 140k
- repairing stadium cost...
- replacing aging players as there is no way to train them.
- improving facilities/stadium for whenever you may decide to buy membership

The current system is obviously flawed. Depending on speculation on the transfer market or on the lottery of youngsters for paying members is not a healthy way of playing a football manager game. There should be tactics involved, there should be strategy/management involved. Not countless hours spent on TL (and even that with at 30 players limit/squad).

Not sure how the user base is evolving, but despite the apparent long life of the game, I could not say I see a way for it to appeal to more people as after a first few weeks it seems you hit a wall that you cannot see a way around.
Also there seem to be no logic to the match engine, or at least no explanation for how it's working, which would be a major plus for this game. Just having some sort of imperfect 2/3D match graphics doesn't seem enough.
But then again, maybe I'm being elitist...
I tried paying for this game, but after a month I evaluated that there is no point in paying for it, at least not in the current format.
And for the last 3 weeks I am considering if I should continue playing it altogether.
But as I've seen with a different topic I started, which made me realize I wasn't the only one disgruntled about some things in this game, flaws that I reported made some already paying member quit, I want to stress again how flawed the premises on which this game is based.

I totally have to disagree with your views , This game is a slow burner which rewards time effort in learning about the games structure . We all had to start from scratch , many of us when players development was a lot slower than its present structure so in that respect the game is easier now than in past years . If you have no patience or willing to learn this is definitely not the game for you . Before I went premium my training ground was red my pitch was of a good quality and 10 million credits saved for improvements to stadium and training facility .

Of course you would say that, you have premium membership and maxed or almost maxed training facilities.
How can you disagree without giving arguments only feelings. This is not therapy. I want facts.
Can you disagree that training without being a paying member is helping you grow your players value?
If not, why enabling it at all for non-paying members?
Can you disagree that without daily trading you could progress in the beginning? With what arguments?

This is to make the game more playable, not to **** about the fact that it was harder/slower before...

Part 2, fixing it:

1: Limit the wages of players in clubs not having the membership. As the wage is based on the number of fans (if I understood correctly), and fans influence the attendance which in turn lead to higher revenue on bigger stadiums it's only fair to limit the wages to the same proportion as the cap on stadiums. Otherwise it's a penalty for non-paying members.

2: change the way training works.
a) disregard the facilities for skills under 30 or so, meaning all players train the same up to 30 regardless of facilities. Bonuses then apply.
b) increase the trainers role in training, balanced by increasing the wages. Instead of percentage add fixed increases so they can be useful on any training facilities balanced.
c) add 1-2 free youngsters to non-paying members, limited in potential to maybe the first few levels of talent, maybe 24 talent points. otherwise no new club can afford to buy a decent talent player

oh I see press a button once a day then move on bye

So that's your argument? Thanks, really helpful!
Also, instead of focusing on the tactics and training the players, I should spend my time on the transfer list? Is this your idea of a football manager, even an online one?
I guess IRL you read more about the transfer than actually watch football matches....
Again, I would like to see arguments of how can you improve a team from scratch, without daily trading.

you welcome btw you must have had premium at on stage as your stadium is above for free levels . I now see your point you want all the benefits of premium without paying and you want the game changed because it is to demanding good luck with that hehe

Adrianopol FC wrote:

So that's your argument? Thanks, really helpful!
Also, instead of focusing on the tactics and training the players, I should spend my time on the transfer list? Is this your idea of a football manager, even an online one?
I guess IRL you read more about the transfer than actually watch football matches....
Again, I would like to see arguments of how can you improve a team from scratch, without daily trading.

Some of your points are of course valid. However.....

If things were to change to make it easier on newbies, you would lose nearly every player who has put in the hard work to get where they are now. It's not fun getting started in this game. You have to take baby steps to do it the right way and put some time into it. But, it is eventually rewarding. You don't get things for free in life, especially without effort.

The game is what it is. I doubt it will change much because you have a well developed ecosystem that has been in place for many years. It is pretty much a given that if you want to get anywhere in this game INITIALLY you have to work as a GM and flip players.

Coptic Titans wrote:

you welcome btw you must have had premium at on stage as your stadium is above for free levels . I now see your point you want all the benefits of premium without paying and you want the game changed because it is to demanding good luck with that hehe

At least you got one thing right! I had the premium but decided it's useless anyway, so I decided to stop paying.
What I am trying to decide is if I should stop playing, as there seem to be no reward unless I make it my second job, scouting the TL for undervalued players. But this is not a thing I would like to do on the long term.
The paying membership for a beginner only gives around 300k more per season, which is considerable, but you could make that much in 3-4 extra transfers (at least for my budget).
But even with that money it will take 2 years to get to the level of facilities needed to actually start training and playing the game. Why should I pay and wait for two years just to bypass what I consider to be a flaw in the system.

Copper Ridge FC wrote:

Some of your points are of course valid. However.....

If things were to change to make it easier on newbies, you would lose nearly every player who has put in the hard work to get where they are now. It's not fun getting started in this game. You have to take baby steps to do it the right way and put some time into it. But, it is eventually rewarding. You don't get things for free in life, especially without effort.

The game is what it is. I doubt it will change much because you have a well developed ecosystem that has been in place for many years. It is pretty much a given that if you want to get anywhere in this game INITIALLY you have to work as a GM and flip players.

I don't think that making it easier on newbies will make older players quit, as it would only be easier until the 4th/3rd division. or around 50-60 ratings on player in the long term (on the short term until 30-40 rating). How will that impact the older managers who have players from 60-70 rating and above?
The real problem is the big difference between the 3rd, and 4th division, which for me at the moment seems insurmountable.

That's my point if you are to succeed in this game and not go stagnant at the start you definitely need to trade even you only make a few gains a day it will build up set yourself a realistic target find your niche in the market with certain level of players you can afford and stick to a price structure when buying . 15 min auctions used to reap good rewards for me when selling at peak times 7-9 pm or just Transfer list them at the best player for the age and price at a mark up to what you brought them this requires only checking time to see if any players have sold if so buy a replacement quickly transfer list the player at a profit log off simples . Save 10 million buy premium upgrade training facility to grey immediately and your on the way to success at pace that suits your busy life ..